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Messages - johntrix

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1
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 08, 2009, 09:09:16 PM »
yes perhaps, that i will do. but neither of those purebreed (AI boars), that i should get my future boar to might be a bad idea. then im gona get triple cross future boar, instead of just F1 ;D. to that issue, i might get an answer as i visited one farm here and convince him to share me one pure breed male piglet (largewhite). this farm owns 4 purebreed (landrace, largewhite, duroc & hamshire pietrain) exclusively use for their sows only. well, i hope he keeps gene data recording so we'll know which is which.

by the way, what do you mean of:
"all runts all culled after 1-2 days after being born as the producer has no time and expence to keep those that are not growing well"

you mean you kill all runt piglets? you keep sows in 2 or 2 n half year that would get 6 parities per sow, am i right?


2
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 05, 2009, 08:18:21 PM »
also another concern of mine.

napapansin ko sa ilang sows ko kase noong di pa ako gumagamit ng AI, gamit ko traditional bulog na dinadala sa farm ko. di naman ganon kareliable yong breed na dala nila. so in other words pwedeng F1, chopsuey o fattener na lang ung mga bulugan dala nila even they say purebreed yon. di naman sa minamaliit ko mga nagbizbiznis ng boar for hire dito kaso since nagpopost kayo ng prices ng pure breed dito then duda na ko kung san galing mga boar na yon some of them merong 10 boars for hire.

now i wasn't that satisfied sa mga piglets na naproduce galing sa boars na mga yon even i got good stocks of f1 sows. nagpursige akong gamitin ang AI kahit napakalayo ang pinanggalingan nito. ang tanong ko po is, naapektuyahan na kaya ang quality ng F1 sows ko since nagamit na at nakailang anak na sila using poor quality boars/ibat ibang boars unknow kung anong lahi? kung baga sa tagalog e nalaspag na yong quality kahit na ipares mo sya sa REAL PUREBREED.

kasi kung me side effects o pangit na resulta (siguro naka3-4 parity na yong ibang sows) then i should cull them and get fresh F1 sows.

3
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 04, 2009, 01:53:24 PM »
hehehe ok thanks. i might end up breeding a kingkong pig. might as well stick to what works well. 2 crosses only if possible.mahirap kasi sa lugar namin ang magavail ng pure breed. tawid dagat pa, and it means a lot of money.

4
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 03, 2009, 01:11:25 PM »
thanks sir mickey. will keep that in mind. what about upgrading ng F1 stock like:

F1 LW 50% LR 50%     x     LW 100%   =   LW 75% LR 25%

LW 75% LR 25%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 88% LR 12%

LW 88% LR 12%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 94% LR   06%

LW 94% LR 06%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 97% LR   03% === Pure Stock Large white

do u practice this in N. America? Im not a Geneticist that surely oppose this method. But kung sa tingin ng nakakararami its ok to do this shortcut way to upgrade stock, mas makakatipid tau availabing pure breed di po ba?

5
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 03, 2009, 11:56:03 AM »
Quote from: mikey on November 03, 2009, 09:04:51 AM
F1s bred to F1s by means of line breeding,half brother to half sisters but of the same breed is done because there is something the breeder/producer wishes to take advantage of,but of the the same breed.If you were breeding 2 F1s of different breeds you would be breeding chopsuey (Philippines) or heinz 57 or mutt in english.May also be called experimential,doubt if it would have any value.F1 sows are bred to terminal sires of purebred breeds by hog producers worldwide because it is a proven method and to breed 2 F1s of 4 different breeds is only creating a heniz 57 or mutt and I see no real value other than the boar was cheaper to purchase in the first place over a purebreed.Your question is very confusing to understand.

Experimential at best,doubt it has any real value,who knows.


Sir mickey thanks po sa sagot. it just happened na nacoconfuse din ako sa result according na rin sa ibat ibang comments. some would say, F!, F2, 4 way cross etc. like:

"(50%duroc x 50%pietrain) colored f1 boar    X     white f1 gilt (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) =  4 ways cross"

both involve are F1. and 4way cross piglets are still good as slaughter hogs right? naging 4-way cross kc it consist of 4 different breeds right?
it just happend na white F1 boar (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) ung naavail ko.

SO MEAN TO SAY, PANGIT NG I-PAIR ITO?

thanks in advance.

6
SWINE / Re: F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: November 02, 2009, 02:24:01 PM »
Quote from: nemo on November 01, 2009, 09:18:58 PM
Again, this topic talaga is a bit difficult to understand...

To make it clear the word F1 does not mean na maganda ang lahi ng baboy.

F1 is just a designation meaning  to some extent "unang  lahi"... Na aassociate lang na F1=magandang lahi sa dahilang ang mga big farms ang kadalasang gumagamit ng terminology na ito

Chopsuey pig - You can only say na chopsuey ang animal if hindi mo alam ang kaniyang breed.

Technically speaking:

F1 x F1 = F2 ( dapat magkapatid parehas ang F1 / inbred siya)

 although ngayon accepted na rin na sabihing

 F1 x F1 = F2 (Hindi magkapatid ang F1)


"(50%duroc x 50%pietrain) f1 boar    X     f1 gilt (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) =  4 ways cross" = tama din po ito because you are pertaining to the bloodline na involve sa mating and F2 ang tawag sa lahi nila

 2nd generation F1?= so far ala akong alam na ganitong terminology, pasok kasi siya as F2

question : ibig sabihin  po pala mas mabilis gumawa ng F1 piglets thru F1 parents and no need a pure boar. kase if....

answer: all animal produced by your sow and boar is called F1


crisscross, backcross, rotational etc... this is the way/procedure that you have done to attain your F1, F2 etc...

example:
F1 GILT (50%landrace x 50%largewhite)    X      100% PURE BOAR (landrace  OR largewhite)
= F2 siya at the same time ang tawag sa ginawa mo na procedure is crisscross or backcross , depend na lang kung sino si boar or gilt dun sa naunang mating that resulted the F1 mo.


tama na man ito niround of nga lang siya..

F1 LW 50% LR 50%     x     LW 100%   =   LW 75% LR 25%

LW 75% LR 25%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 88% LR 12%

LW 88% LR 12%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 94% LR   06%

LW 94% LR 06%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 97% LR   03%



GP and PS is just a terminology/designation. Kung ang baboy mo ginamit mo as source ng PS then pwede mo siyang tawagin GP ng farm mo...

Again usually ang GP and PS are magagandang lahi ng baboy...









doc yong sa akin ay different parents and came from different farms too, parehas na white F1. if we put bloodline by percentage:

(50%landrace x 50%largewhite)  F1 BOAR    X     F1 GILT (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) =   (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) PIGLETS

= they are still F1 not F2 po.
 
correct me po if im wrong kase, i follow bloodline percentage para mahanapan ko rin kung ano ang dapat i-pair sa sususnod. thanks doc.



7
SWINE / F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.
« on: October 31, 2009, 07:22:03 PM »
doc question lang po


1) F1 gilt to mate F1 boar.

ano po ang tawag sa mga biik nito? chopsuey na ba? ito ang pinagtatalunan namin kanina. ang sabi nya F2 raw ang anak nito ang sabi ko chopsuey na un. nang nagavail ako sa isang farm ng gagawing boar, meron daw, kaso f1 lahat nirerelease nila. maganda pa rin ba ang mga piglets nito for fatteners? anyone tried this?

some commented:
"F1 sow x F1 boar = 2nd generation ng F1 (terminal/maternal offsping)"
"(50%duroc x 50%pietrain) f1 boar    X     f1 gilt (50%landrace x 50%largewhite) =  4 ways cross"

so kung ganon:
F1 GILT (50%landrace x 50%largewhite)    X      F1 BOAR (50%landrace x 50%largewhite)
=  2nd generation ng F1 nga ba?

ibig sabihin  po pala mas mabilis gumawa ng F1 piglets thru F1 parents and no need a pure boar. kase if

F1 GILT (50%landrace x 50%largewhite)    X      100% PURE BOAR (landrace  OR largewhite)
= F2 lang sya di po ba?


parang nagulo ung dating alam ko sa crisscrossing ah. please enlighten me doc. dahil i found out na ung boar na nabili ko is f1 boar (landrace x largewhite) na akala ko is pure.

another thing doc, also i read:

F1 LW 50% LR 50%     x     LW 100%   =   LW 75% LR 25%

LW 75% LR 25%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 88% LR 12%

LW 88% LR 12%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 94% LR   06%

LW 94% LR 06%         x      LW 100%  =   LW 97% LR   03%

2) can we possibly create a GP or PS stock by upgrading an F1?


gusto ko lang makasigurado and get second opinion if tama nga po
thanks doc.
 



8
SWINE / Re: Gilt and Sow Management
« on: October 14, 2009, 07:03:19 PM »
ang pagkakaalam ko ang 1st & 2nd heat ay pamumula lang ng ari ng gilt pero walang mucus na lumalabas thats y di pa pwedeng pabulugan. the 3rd heat sometimes sa 2nd heat rin, kapansin pansin na ang pamamaga ng ari ng gilt at ang mucus na nalabas, thats y 3rd heat ang ideal time. kaya ako i don't observe 1st or 2nd heat. pag nasa 7-8 months old na gilt at pag me lumabas ng mucus i pressume it's her 3 heat and just the right time to breed. basta ok sya sa back pressure GO! GO! GO!

9
SWINE / Re: Gilt and Sow Management
« on: October 06, 2009, 09:07:06 PM »
thanks doc will do that. i use ivermectic sa mga biik i never tried sa sow pa. in case how many "ml" should i inject sa sow.

10
SWINE / Re: Gilt and Sow Management
« on: October 06, 2009, 06:25:04 PM »
di po ba pag inabot ng lugon ay matatagalan ang reheat nito, meron naman akong teaser boar. pero kung this wont help dahil nga sa paglulugon should i inject her gonadin na para di sayang panahon. malakas naman pong kumain, at para nga pong nangangati. pero ngaun nagsusubside na ung pamumula. am still observing. ano pong cause kaya nito.

11
SWINE / Re: Gilt and Sow Management
« on: October 05, 2009, 07:44:23 PM »
doc, ung sow ko na naiwalay ko 1 week na ngaun ay naglulugon at namumula ung balat parang mga rashes ito, ano po ba ito, anong tawag dito at ano ang gamot na pwedeng ibigay. thanks po. worry ko baka matagalan maglandi ito.

2nd.
itong kalapit na piggery ko ang practice nya sa gilt ay after grower stage, finisher na para lumabas yong built at puro laman daw, pinakakain nya til maglandi ito. mas lumaki nga naman ito kumpara sa gilt ko, the same age sila. mas nauna ko nga lang napabulugan ung sa kin.do you hear some folks practicing that way, concern lang ako ano ang advantage non?

12
SWINE / Re: Signs of Trueheat, di pa rin nabubuntis?
« on: October 01, 2009, 09:46:50 PM »
thanks doc. if i own the boar ok naman cguro kahit 3x. un  nga lang bata pa. maybe in the next coming month. what i did is isang gilt ang experimentally pinabulog ko sa 5mos old jr boar ko. curios lang akong malaman kung ano resulta hehehe.

13
SWINE / Signs of Trueheat, di pa rin nabubuntis?
« on: October 01, 2009, 09:18:51 AM »
doc question ko lang about insemination:

1.
laging sinasabi sa pagbubulog is about TIMING. nakitaan naman sya ng signs like submmissive na sa boar. bakit nagrereheat pa rin? if it is timing then maybe lets base sa mucus na lumalabas. there are two types, ung kulay alaska condensada na puting mucus or clear mucus stage na. alin man sa dalawang stage na to submissive na ang sow dyan. alin po dyan ang the best time to mate? sometimes rin, after nong kulay gatas, malilipasan na agad. ;-( ibig bang sabihin nito its better na pabulugan ang sow once a day in 4 consecutive days para matyambahan mo ung timing na sinasabi nila?

2.
ung sow ko na naka 2 parity na, puro normal bulog ang ginamit sa kanya. now lang sya isinabak sa AI. nalaman ko lang na silent heat sya dahil dinala ko ung teaser boar sa unahan ng pen then sumakay ako sa likod nya. di na sya gumalaw and that very moment then may umagos na clear mucus sa ari nya na di mo madetect kahit fingerin mo ng walang teaser boar. tumawag agad ako ng AI.noong hapon, sinumpit na sya.pero magalaw sya, urong sulong, parang nangangati na inihahampas o paikot ikot ung buntot nya don sa sumpit. pero pag bibigyan mo ng back pressure titigil sya at tahimik normal ba to? kc ung ibang sinumpitan tahimik naman even walang back pressure. im worried lang kase ung isang dumalaga ko na ganito rin ang reaction sa sumpit ay nag-reheat. pero sa 2nd sumpit, tahimik na lang sya. these are important notes sa AI if ready na ba ang sow even its acting uneasy habang sinusumpit.

3.
ang pagbulog po ba ng maraming beses say 4 consecutive days can add more piglets? kase if capable ang sow na manganak ng 20 piglets at 12 lang normally ang success na nabuo sa unang bulog, madaragdan ba ito sa second bulog, or 3rd and so on? if not, it means ba na close na ang conference room after success bulog kahit pa pabulugan mo ng many times hehehe! literally!

14
SWINE / Re: Paiwi system
« on: October 01, 2009, 08:44:52 AM »
thanks doc sa advice.

15
SWINE / Paiwi system
« on: September 29, 2009, 08:47:40 PM »
hi doc,

i was looking for a thread regarding paiwi, meron lang is Contract Growing topic. ano po ba ang terms sa paiwi? gusto ko sanang magalaga. i have 15 sows & 40 fatteners now. meron pa rin bakanteng fattener pen. kaso kulang na ako sa budget kaya plan ko paiwi na lang ung empty pen. kung sakin ang kulungan, kuryente, tubig & labour pano po ba ang hatian. y po sabi ng ilan ung nagpapaiwi ay pumipili ng walang baboy na inaalagaan. i wonder y, they should be confident kase sanay na sa pagaalaga ung pagiiwanan nila ng biik di po ba? ibabawas ba lahat ang gastos after sales like piglets cost, feeds, meds, tech, electricity, water & labour & then half sa profit? if sa kin ang elec, water, & labour then i should ask for a payback right?

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