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History Of A Great Grand Champion Nubian Buck
« on: December 18, 2010, 10:37:06 AM »
The Home of Past, Present and Future Champions
 This tribute to GCH ++*B Hallcienda Frosty Marvin (1972 - 1982) is the combined efforts of three dairy goat breeders who have owned and/or worked with the buck.
Written for the Dairy Goat Journal, (Vol. 61 No. 3) appearing in their March, 1983 publication.
Section #1
By: Alice Hall (San Bernardino, California)

Every breeder needs a buck he can believe in! Hallcienda was fortunate to start with such a buck — perhaps out of ignorance, but the truth was, GCH ++*B Naja Goliath-Hall’s Doll turned out to be a buck a herd could believe in. He didn’t seem that way to others, and by the time he’d been zapped in the showring a few times because he lacked depth and had a terribly serrated scrotum, Hallcienda leased him out for a time.

Meanwhile, Alice Tracy of Hurricane Acres advised, “Serrated scrotums don’t mean a thing. If you believe in the buck and his pedigree, forget what everyone else says!” When Hallcienda saw what Goliath was doing for his daughters in the other herd, Hallcienda concurred with Hurricane Acres and brought the buck home.

One of Goliath’s most beautiful and productive daughters, GCH Hallcienda Cleopatra 5*M, was the daughter of a doe that had a severely undershot jaw. Since Goliath also was slightly “pouty”, Hallcienda determined never to breed 2 the two together, but the doe slipped through the fence, was bred to Goliath, and produced Cleopatra, who was probably one of the best things that ever happened to Hallcienda.

Rather than experimenting with in breeding immediately, Cleopatra was bred to *H Hallcienda Magic Garry, the son of GCH *B Black Magic’s Andre Nicki, another buck Hallcienda believed in. All it took was one look at Nicki and his daughters at a few shows and Hallcienda believed in the potential of Nicki. Nicki’s son, Garry, didn’t inspire Hallcienda as did Goliath and Nicki, but he was bred to yearling Cleopatra as a trial. The resulting daughter, Shelly, was another beautyl

Unfortunately, Shelly died young with infectious arthritis, but a repeat breeding had been made. The result was GCH ++ *B Hallcienda Antony, who was another buck Hallcienda believed in implicitly. In almost 100% of the cases, Antony improved his daughters over their dams in conformation and production.

It’s difficult to define what “believing in a buck” is. It’s sort of a gut feeling that he has what a herd needs and is going to pass that quality on. It may or may not be related to pedigree or appearance. Some instinct tells a breeder that one of a pair of twins is worth believing in and the other isn’t. A herd that is using a buck it can’t believe in, regardless of the pedigree, is on a down-hill trend.

Garry didn’t give Hallcienda that gut feeling and sure enough, he died young with infectious arthritis as did several of his daughters. Goliath was getting older, so Cleopatra was bred to her sire, Goliath, a few times. By the time she was bred to her great son, Antony, she was older, her resistance was down, and she and the triplet does she carried were lost. But, one of the Cleo-Goliath breedings resulted in triplet does, one of which was Noel. Noel was a big, rangy doe, that matured early. She was bred to Antony at eight months, to double up the breeding on Cleo.

Noel freshened in the winter at 13 months when milk was sorely needed. She had a single buck kid, born on a Saturday. He was a pretty little blond buck, but Hallcienda didn’t need a buck out of a yearling. Hallcienda needed the milk, so the little buck was taken away from Noel and brought into the house to await Tuesday’s auction.  By Tuesday, the little buck had so wormed his way into everyone’s affections that the auction was out of the question. Besides, he was rather pretty!

A high school student was found who wanted to raise a kid, and the little blond buck went to live with the boy. What a life the buck had! He named him Marvin, and Marvin lived in the boy’s bathroom for over two months. The boy often allowed Marvin to follow him to school because he knew the teachers would make him take the buck back home, and that was a good way to miss class time. Marvin became sort of an FFA mascot, being used to demonstrate dehorning, tattooing and hoof trimming at the school agriculture classes.

By the time Marvin was three-months-old, the boy’s father decided he’d out-grown the bathroom and had to find another place to live. So Marvin came home to Hallcienda. By that time it was apparent that he was quite a handsome buck and that his mother, Noel, was a good producer — a good combination. But Hallcienda still had Goliath and Antony, and it didn’t need another buck.

Then a friend called to say she needed a buck; what did Hallcienda have? Hallcienda described the buck, perhaps using the term ‘light roan’, and said, since it was a friend calling, that she could have him for $50.00. The deal was made over the telephone, and Hallcienda drove Marvin about 100 miles to his new home. The woman looked at him and said, “He’s blond! I don’t want a blond buck!” Hallcienda was shocked and disheartened. The buck was not wanted back at the farm. Besides, he didn’t know he was a goat — he thought he was a person and was a pest. He didn’t know how to relate to does — he had a lot to learn. So in disgust, Hallcienda said, “Oh, just keep him here and sell him.” However, they neglected to specify what price they wanted, so Marvin found his permanent home for $50.00.

The new owner, Barbara Thrasher, didn’t particularly like the name Marvin, but the buck came when he was called and knew the name so well, it was impossible to change it. So she added the prefix “Frosty”, and the buck became Hallcienda Frosty Marvin. Hailcienda was not overjoyed at letting a buck go for so little money, but in retrospect, it was a good deal for everyone! Marvin was coddled and loved by Barbara as he had been by the high school student. In addition, he was campaigned and used widely and wisely, and the results were worth more to Hallcienda than any outlandish original sale price would have been.

And Marvin, too, like his sire and both grandsires, was a buck a breeder could believe in — wholeheartedly!



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Re: History Of A Great Grand Champion Nubian Buck
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 10:39:48 AM »
: Barbara Thrasher (Covelo, California)

The first week of April, 1972, I went to a local dairy goat breeder to pick out a doe kid to help start my herd. It was exciting for me, I only had two other does. They were registered Nubians, but one was twelve-years-old. There were eight or ten doe kids in a pen together. They were all about two-months-old. It was extremely hard to choose one, they were all so pretty, but hard to get a good look at. They were wild, having been raised on their mother. When I tried to get close to them, they would crowd together in the corner of the pen. While trying to approach these frightened little does, I felt some little hooves on the back of my leg. I turned around and there he was; a beautiful light blond, roan kid. What a charmer.

I thought he was truly gorgeous. Of course, being a beginner, I didn’t have much conñdence in my judging ability. He really appealed to me though. He was smooth, well-proportioned, had a super personality, and was a beautiful color. I asked who he was and was told he had been ordered from a breeder to the north of us and when he was delivered she had been disappointed in him. She said the breeder had told her to try to sell him and send her the money. The breeder that I had gone to in search of a doe intended to take him with her to an upcoming show in an area where lots of people eat goat meat, and to sell him there if she couldn’t sell him before. I couldn’t bear the thought of someone butchering that little buck, so I asked her how much she wanted for him. She told me $50.00.

Believe it or not, I told her I would have to think about it. After all, I only had three does. Did I really need a buck? Of course I did! And besides I was already in love.

The next day I went back to finalize the deal and pick up the little buck.

“Does he have a name?” I asked.

“Oh, I think his name is Marvin,” she said. I decided that was a pretty plain name for such a handsome buck, so I decided to add Frosty to it because of his color. Also I thought it would add a touch of class to his name. We tried it out, “Hallcienda Frosty Marvin”, yes, that would sound good over a loud speaker at a show.

Completely satisfied with my decision, I took Marvin to his new home. He moved right in and took over our home as if he’d been born there. It was, however, difficult to convince Marvin that he was supposed to live in the barn with the other goats. He much preferred to be in the house with us.

Still unsure of my ability to judge the conformation of my new purchase, I asked a prominent breeder in our town to come take a look at him and give me her opinion. I guess I wanted assurance that I had made the right decision to purchase him. She walked around him in a full circle and looked up with a very serious look on her face. She told me that, in her opinion, I should try to sell him as quickly as possible, even if I had to take him to the auction, before I had any more money invested in him.

I sure was disappointed, but as I said before, I was in love and decided that I liked Marvin and didn’t care if anyone else did or not. That is an opinion that I have always stuck with throughout the years. You have to have confidence in what you like.

We had quite a few problems in the beginning. Marvin had been weaned early and I wanted to put him back on milk. But I had a problem, none of my three girls were in milk. I started looking for a milker to buy. I looked at one doe that I liked a lot and who was a good milker. But I could not afford her, they wanted $125.00 for her. Ironically, that was Rancho Nuevo Belle Nouvelle, who later became the mother of Marvin’s first daughter — GCH Rancho Nuevo Jody. (I sure kicked myself around over that!) We did, however, find a milker in our price range. Marvin really liked his milk, but had continuous problems with diarrhea and bloating. Once he bloated so bad that I put him in the car and started for the veterinarian’s office about 20 miles away. By the time we were half way there, the bumping from the car had helped to relieve the bloat and he seemed better. I took him in anyway and found that the real source of his problem was coccidiosis. After medication, he was fine and thoroughly enjoyed his milk with no ill effects. He grew and blossomed.

We went to our first show in May. Marvin was four-months-old. He really did enjoy himself, as he always did throughout his show career. He behaved so well. I was standing with Marvin at ringside, watching the older bucks, when a friend with an older buck said, “Enjoy him while he’s young because the older he gets the meaner he will be.” He pointed to a buck that was pawing and urinating on his owner’s leg. “That buck has broken that man’s ribs, too!” I told him I just knew Marvin would never be that way. I was right, I could always   handle him with ease. He was such a showman; he loved being posed, either for the showring or for pictures. At his first show he was Junior Champion on Saturday and Reserve Junior Champion on Sunday. Marvin was on his way to proving that what I had thought of him the first time I saw him was true. One rewarding part of that first show, was when the breeder who told me to cull Marvin approached me to reserve two breedings for that fall.

Marvin grew to be a very large buck. He was very impressive, even to people not experienced with goats. He stood out in a crowded show barn being both large and unusual in color. Many times people would make remarks like, “I see you brought your pony”; or, “Do you have a saddle for him?” One judge upon placing him second said, “I know there must be some dairy character in there somewhere.” Another judge once said, “This is a very flashy, showy buck, but frankly, I would be afraid to breed him to any of my does.” (To that remark my husband muttered under his breath, “What do you raise, pygmies?”) Marvin had an excellent show record; most judges liked him and the ones that didn’t usually mostly objected to his size. One judge really made us proud by saying, “I know a lot of you people think this buck is fat, but he is not, he is all buck, very sharp at the withers, with excellent ribbing.”

Marvin was a joy to show. He always made a lasting impression on those who met him. At one crowded show where there were not enough pens, we put him together with the small babies. Everyone was so surprised that he would not hurt them. He was extremely gentle to people and other animals.

All except horses, that is. He had a real hatred for horses and would go through a fence to get at them. It was a strange sight to see my old gelding frantically trying to get away from Marvin one day when the gate had come open. Marvin was bitten on top of the head when he was a yearling, and his dislike for horses lasted the rest of his life. Marvin loved to go in the van, he would load himself when we opened the door.

Always, after Marvin had been in the showring, he wanted to smoke a cigarette, when he was through. He had a way of letting us know by looking at my husband’s shirt pocket and then looking straight in his face as close as he could reach. He also did this to people that came to visit him (if he could smell smoke on them). Ron would light a cigarette and Marvin would take deep breaths of the smoke and relax after a class. Honestly, sometimes I thought he was human.

Marvin was always very healthy. He occasionally had bouts with bloat as he got older, so when that happened, we would go for a ride in the car over to Joan Coolidge’s house and together we would drive him around town until the vibrations made him belch it all out.

Marvin’s constant companion was a small Barbados sheep named Fuzzy. She was very devoted to him and misses him a lot. I believe it is important to give bucks the company that every animal enjoys. Marvin always had someone to share his living quarters with, play with if he felt like it, and to sleep with when the weather was cold. I think it kept them interested in life.

Last summer, Marvin fell and cracked a vertebrae in his neck. It threw his back so much out of line that it looked like an S-curve. He couldn’t straighten his neck out and was in great pain. I made arrangements through my veterinarian to take Marvin to the University of California at Davis. It was a five-hour drive there and all the way I could hear the bones grinding every time he moved. He also would grind his teeth from time to time indicating he was in pain.

The staff at Davis who met us (after business hours) were all so very nice. They took a look at Marvin and remarked something about, “Oh, a billy goat”; and proceeded to examine him. They took him into the X-ray room and took several pictures.

I expected them to tell me we would have to stay over for treatments of some kind or other, but instead they called me into a small room where they read the X-rays. They told me that his spine was full of arthritis and was almost completely fused together. It was such a shock I couldn’t speak at the time.

I went back to the X-ray room where one of the technicians was waiting with Marvin. He walked out to the car with us, trying to console me the best he could. He said they usually don’t enjoy working with “billy goats”, but he was glad to have met Marvin; he was truly a gentleman. The road home seemed so long, I cried most of the way. They had given Marvin medication for pain and I hoped that he was more comfortable.

Once home, I set about making him as comfortable as possible. I decided to do everything that could be done, despite the bleak outlook for the months ahead. Our friends, Alice and James, gave us a special orthopedic heating pad that fit the length of his back, and we gave him heat and massage treatments several hours a day. Another friend, Mary brought aloe vera juice for him. I put it on his grain. I really feel that it worked wonders. Between the two treatments, Marvin’s spine became almost straight again, and he had several more good months. He could walk well and was seemingly free of pain.

When winter came, despite a warm coat, the dampness took its toll on him. In his last days, we tried to comfort him, keep him company and give him the things that he liked best. Alice cut him fresh alfalfa blossoms every morning. He was too proud to be hand fed; he preferred to eat them by himself out of the bag she had brought. If I had to go out for awhile, Mary came by several times to make sure he could reach his water, talk to him, and give him fresh food.

I know lots of people reading this will not understand that an animal could mean so much to so many, but all I can say is you had to know him. I am very grateful for the years we had, the many lasting friendships that developed, and all the wonderful experiences we had together.


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Re: History Of A Great Grand Champion Nubian Buck
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 10:50:43 AM »
By: Joan Coolidge (Watsonville, California)

Little did I know that because I was a “pedigree buff”, and mainly, because I fell in love with a picture of Marvin in the Dairy Goat Journal (a 1976 issue) that a long-term friendship would begin with the Thrashers and Marvin. Since that time I have, shared a variety of experiences with both Barbara and Marvin (some happy, some sad).

For a long time I had searched for a buck to breed to my one and only Nubian doe. After seeing Marvin in the Dairy Goat Journal, I immediately knew that this was the only buck I wanted to use. Upon our first visit to see Marvin, found myself purchasing a beautiful blond buck kid (who is now my senior herdsire) — *B Pepperwood Farm Frosty Pepper. Because of my admiration for Marvin and for Barbara’s fine herd, and with the purchase of my beautiful new buck kid, a very close and rewarding friendship started with a much admired buck and a very lovely lady: one that taught me the value of a dairy goat as a productive animal who has much to contribute to the dairy goat industry. Also, an animal who has much to offer in the way of intelligence, loyalty and friendship.

Throughout these years I have seen Marvin’s progeny grow to become grand champions, Top Ten milkers and to be the beginning of many herds as well as valuable additions to others. Throughout those years, Marvin has earned the title of “Mr. Consistency” to me as well as many others. I honestly feel that Marvin is the greatest buck for those attributes he consistently passed on to his progeny. I am sure many will say, “Well, he’s not all that great, or I’ve seen more milk passed on or better udders produced.” In many cases this is true. I also have found several bucks who have produced better udders (however, with varied consistency), but I have found no buck more consistent than Marvin overall.

Some bucks are fortunate enough to be in good herds and bred mainly to quality does, so the end results should be good- to- excellent progeny. However, if you breed bucks to poor quality does from all different lines, you may or may not get good animals. Marvin was a buck bred to all lines and all types from the very poorest to grand champions. He maintained and improved the quality of the majority and improved something in all. His ratio of improvement was no “hit or miss”. Marvin was most consistent in his ability to smooth out the very coarse does; to greatly improve top lines, to sharpen many shoulders, widen many chests, to improve pasterns, and also to take poor blending animals and make parts look as if they belong together.

Marvin had one quality many Nubians never had (or perhaps never will have) and that is he had an extremely wide chest with extremely sharp, tight and well-blended shoulders. Nubians as a general rule have a tendency to have round or flat shoulders, or if they are sharp, they have a tendency to be narrow chested with little or no brisket. Marvin (and his son, Pepper) have the nicest blending shoulders I have ever seen. Over and over again, in the showring, Marvin and his progeny were especially noted for their outstanding smoothness, exceptional blending and dairy character. In these ways Marvin was the best. He consistently improved udders and pulled up some really bad udders to produce a grand champion or two.

Throughout the years, Marvin has been consistent in many ways, however, one of the most striking is his ability to produce the same look in the area of the head, ears, and especially the face. His sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters (through several generations) display a smaller, more beautiful face being wide between the eyes but with a shorter, more stylish, length of head. This is a unique trait that has been passed on from one generation to another, imprinting Marvin’s very own style throughout the Nubian breed.

Marvin himself, was a very smooth, large and powerful animal (with probably the largest neck I have ever seen), but with much, much dairy character. His daughters are very feminine and dairy. Marvin was the epitomy of masculinity while his does display tremendous femininity, dairy and breed character. I have a GCH (triple granddaughter) of Marvin’s who was bred back to Marvin and together they produced a more feminine, refined doe who has an even higher, tighter, and wider udder than her darn. Upon maturity, I expect her to be grand champion material. The line is quite often slow maturing (3 to 4 years) and takes a while for depth and barrel to appear. Since there is great longevity in this line the slow maturing factor does not really hinder any breeding program (patience is a virtue in breeding).

I have found the more I linebreed on this great line the better the animals become. Marvin is not a line unto himself, but an excellent product of the great Hallcienda Herd. Upon linebreeding with Marvin, one can draw upon the great genetic background of Marvin’s illustrious parentage, as well as his own unique genetic pool.

Marvin brought hundreds of people together, not only as business acquaintances, but as life-long friends — to himself as well as to the Thrashers. People were drawn to him for not only his conformation, strength and beauty, but because of his magnetic personality, warm expressive eyes and his kind, gentle face. Probably the greatest quality Marvin did possess and did pass on to his progeny was his fantastic disposition. He was quiet, gentle, proud and dignified — a true gentleman.

In the Aug. 1982 issue of the Dairy Goat Journal, a list was published of the Elite Nubian Bucks. Marvin was not only on this list, but his photo was featured and at that time was the only living Elite buck. In 1980, at the age of 8 years and 8 months, Marvin classified Excellent 90 (89 90 91)!

Marvin had lived as he had died, with pride, dignity and grace, the epitomy of a true grand champion!
NOTE:some of the greatest bloodlines can trace part of their pedigree back to the Hallcienda bloodlines.Lakeshore to Kastdamur,Kastdamur to Hallcienda and Hallcienda to Warpaint.Hallcienda bred the great Frosty Marvin.Frosty Marvin has helped to produce some of the greatest dairy nubians we have today.The other great goat that helped the dairy industry was Conquest a double CGH ++* B Hallcienda Frosty Marvin.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 11:59:53 AM by mikey »


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